Lesehan Talk with Sarah Djabir

Sarah Djabir, posing in front of her bakehouse. Check her bakehouse on Instagram here. (They have some Lebaran hampers available starting today!)

Sarah, could you tell us how you grew up and what food you had growing up?

I’ve always loved eating. But as an Arab-Indonesia, I never saw the difference in the food I had at home and others’, because I also grew up with tempe, eggs, and rice. It took me a while to realize my identity and it was not until I told my friend about Bubur Asidah. It’s like porridge slash pudding, made of wheat flour simmered in water. It’s as simple as that, but Bubur Asidah of Indonesia is infused with lots of spice until the color turns brown. The signature flavor comes from the green cardamom of India and gula merah (coconut sugar), so it’s sweet. But in the Middle Eastern area, it’s usually savory and enjoyed with soupy meals like Gulai. In my family, we usually have Bubur Asidah in late afternoon with Minyak Samin or mentega. One time I talked to my friend about it and she was like, “What’s that?”.

I think cooking has always been a part of me; I used to see a kitchen as a playground. But my mother did not really cook, she did her residency as a doctor. My love of cooking comes from my grandma and my aunt - my grandma plays a big role in feeding our family, as my mom sees cooking merely as a responsibility, not something that she loves. When I was a kid, I often visited my grandma’s house and I’d linger in the kitchen, watching my aunt cook or make donuts. I refused to go home until the donut was done! Approaching Lebaran (Idul Fitri), my grandma’s sisters gathered in my grandma’s house to make cookies. Somehow as a kid, I never saw cooking as labor, it just felt fun.

How did your grandma and aunts respond to that?

They were not shocked at all because they knew that I loved eating.

What did you cook with your grandma?

I never really cooked with my grandma, but usually with my grandma’s sisters before Lebaran or with my aunts - like those times before Lebaran. I made cookies and bread with them, staying in the kitchen until the cookies were ready. We also made Untuk, a donut from Banjarmasin. It’s filled with unti (grated coconut flavored with palm sugar) or Meises (chocolate sprinkles) for the kids - the last one was usually made by my grandma. It’s like the dry version of Bomboloni

What foods are typically served in your family during Ramadan?

Well, I think it’s similar to other households in Indonesia. For buka (iftar), we usually have gorengan, Kolak , or Kacang Ijo (warm mung beans cooked in gula merah) for Takjil ( small meals to break the fast; boosting your metabolism after a day of fasting). However, lately, my family just goes straight to eating heavier meals like rice. Also maybe after having issues with my digestive system, we’ve started eating less Gorengan and started having soup or warm Kolak. Before that usually on Bukber(buka bersama/having an Iftar dinner together), we had Sambosa with minced beef or cheese (for the kids), Risoles, and Martabak. 

Is there any connection between using local flour with this? And how was your journey into baking?

Ya, ya... So I started cooking in the beginning before I shifted my focus to baking.

At that time, I realized that Indonesian cuisine is influenced by other cultures like China, India, and Arab - from noodles to roti maryam. They’re all based on wheat flour. For example, Arabic culture is very much engaged in our own Indonesian culture, but unfortunately, we haven’t adapted the ingredients to using local ingredients.

Wheat flour has affected our cuisine so much that even for things that do not need it, like Apem, some people use wheat flour to make it; with an excuse to make it more tender. When we’re used to this texture, we start to forget our own texture; that signature membal texture from rice flour. So then I began to explore local flour like rice flour, modified cassava flour, and sorghum flour.

For now, I’m still exploring all possibilities of rice flour, because I’m mainly using Rose Brand as it has a super fine texture that works best for baked goods. I’d love to support small local rice flour entrepreneurs, but I still haven’t found the best way to work with the coarser rice flour that they have. It’s similar to the single-origin concept with the local rice, depending on the type of rice and the land, but most of the flour is still coarse. So for something that can work easier, I go for Rose Brand’s rice flour and modified cassava flour - maybe because it’s already fermented too (cassava flour).

Where do you get your modified cassava flour?

Ah, I get it from Ladang Lima. They simply call it cassava flour, but it’s actually modified cassava flour. There is a big misunderstanding among people that they think it’s genetically modified flour because the word ‘modified’ is usually connected to GMO and all the modifications that are done in a lab. In my opinion, it would be more easily accepted as fermented cassava flour.

Wait, Ladang Lima is from my hometown, Surabaya!

Yeah, they are. They work together with cassava farmers from East Java. 

That’s interesting! I think they are some sort of pioneer when it comes to gluten-free flour and they have so many products like noodles and pasta. I did try their noodles and cassava flour. Their flour is so soft; it feels like using “usual” flour.

They ground it so well! For me, the indicator of good flour is to compare it with powder. If it is as soft as powder, then it’s ideal for baking. When it’s coarser, it doesn’t absorb water well.

That’s interesting

Ya, because it’s more difficult when the flour is coarser. You will see that the water just floats on the surface.

on photo: Takjil (Iftar meals) at Sarah’s house. From top, right, to left: Sate, Rutab (fresh dates - sold frozen in Indonesia), Es Timun Suri with Selasih, Cincau, and Kolang-kaling (kaong), and Arem-arem.

I’d like to talk about decolonizing bakeries. I think it goes beyond ingredients. What is decolonizing in this context, in kue and jajan, to you? 

My idea of decolonizing baking ingredients goes back to incorporating local ingredients and learning our kearifan lokal (local wisdom).

Besides cassava and rice flour to substitute for wheat flour (tepung terigu), I’m also developing coconut milk to substitute for butter and oil, trying to find the right measurement. I mean, I love dairy, not gonna lie. Galapung’s products still have butter, cheese, and milk, but I use local ingredients from Indonesia. Just trying to find what’s available in your surrounding area.

Baking is just like cooking, you need fresh ingredients. The fresher the ingredients, the higher quality that you get. Meanwhile, like wheat, you have to get it transported to Indonesia, then you still need to process it into flour. I think there is basic knowledge from both worlds that we all can learn from. I studied culinary and baking, so I appreciate other techniques, like the French ones, when it comes to pastry. I’m just trying to explore what I like using local ingredients. For local kue and jajan, I’d love to but my palate was not used to it. For me, I think, the triangle of Indonesian jajan is pandan, coconut milk, and gula melaka (palm sugar) - which I do not put blame on it or anyone, but it’s too bad if we only explore those three ingredients, while we have such great chocolate and vanilla that we also need to explore. 

Ah ya, that’s the trifecta of Indonesian jajan and kue, isn’t it…

Yeah, our flavor mainly depends on those three, yet it comes in various textures.

Let’s talk about local chocolate and vanilla. How do you incorporate it?

I used vanilla paste from La Dame in Vanilla, Bali. It’s super fragrant, like imported vanilla extract. For vanilla bean, I’ve tried the ones from Alor and Bali - and each of them is exceptional! Alor’s vanilla is so plump and juicy! To incorporate it, I put vanilla paste in my sweet cookies and bread. For Chocolate, I mainly use Monggo, but sometimes I also use Pipiltin. I went to Makassar also and visited some chocolate producers. The flavor was good, but it still needs a steady standard. There is a big opportunity for local chocolate!

We’ve been talking about local farmers so far.  What is the urgency of working with local farmers to you?

If there is no farmer, how are we going to eat?

Ideally, everyone should have the ability to farm. But these days, it’s not possible. With the centrist supply chain in Indonesia, we depend so much on them.

It’s important to support them; at least by buying food that we can trace back. I know that for now, I can’t work directly with them, but I really wish to work with them.

Finger-crossed! So, by the way, your background was pastry?

I took culinary school at the beginning, but then I became interested in pastry so I decided to learn more about pastry in Le Cordon Blue, Sydney.

You told me when you studied culinary school, there was so much unnecessary waste like aluminum foil. How do you compare it with ingredients that are available in Indonesia like banana leaves - that you use a lot in Galapung? 

During culinary school, I did find so much waste like plastic or parchment paper needed to make a massive scale food like in a restaurant or pastry shop. At the end of each class, there was so much parchment paper, plastic wrap, or plastic for a piping bag. Then there’s acetate plastic for chocolate or plastic to cool down your pastry. It’s just an enormous amount. So then I started to explore banana leaves, not just from Indonesian culture, but also I found that in the Philippines, they bake Bingka using banana leaves. It works great, but of course, it’s not perfect, it won’t hold the same shape for each cake let’s say. But I don’t mind that because that makes the beauty! When every cake looks the same it’s like it’s done by a robot. For some baked goods like pavlova, I can’t use banana leaves; either parchment paper or a baking mat, or for cookies, I just put them straight on the greased loaf. I tried using banana leaves for cookies, but they did not hold the shape because banana leaves shrink when you bake them. 

So there are things that are just not meant to be for banana leaves

Yes, although I did not acknowledge that when I started Galapung. I was so worn out collecting and separating the waste that I realized that I still need some plastic, but I try my best to use banana leaves whenever possible. For example, when I measure the dough or bake a certain pastry, I try to use banana leaves. While to make Saus Vla, it’s necessary to use plastic.

Galapung has just reopened, right? But you had a small break like last year?

Actually, Galapung started in 2018, but then I had to stop during covid. But I’m actually very grateful because I could explore so much during the first period of covid; like getting in touch with local producers such as gula merah from Kebonjiwan. Shout out to them! During this period, I could also be more mindful when it comes to developing my products and minimizing kitchen waste. Now, I don’t think I can minimize waste as much as I did at home, but I think so far it’s pretty good.

So like a month ago, I discussed something with Rahel from Spoons. So she’s known for her Raspberry Blondies. Somebody ordered it but then they got disappointed because “the cake was so dense”. To Rahel, it shows that that person was not accustomed to this kind of citarasa. As we know, Indonesian cakes are made using rice flour, so it will yield a different texture and how it rises is also different. How do you see it? In terms of incorporating Indonesian ingredients into “European” cakes and maybe, the shifting of texture and citarasa.

I think there is no right or wrong. What she’s doing is more like incorporating our ingredients and somehow it’s similar to what I do. I agree with Rahel - if you make something that is not usually found out there or something that people don’t normally have, there will be that kind of feedback. I wouldn’t take it personally. To me, I see it as something that’s signature from Spoons. It’s not white people’s blondies, but also it’s not Indonesian food. I see the same way for my pastry. It’s not French pastry because I use cassava flour and it’s also not Indonesian flour. I use cassava flour, local butter from Rosali (Bali), and Amed’s sea salt. I just want to highlight local ingredients, that they all can be very special

Let’s get back to Galapung, where does the name come from?

It’s from Banjarese language. Galapung means flour. So my grandmother from my mother was born in Banjar and I’m very familiar with the language. So when I was brainstorming with my mom, she said, “Why not Galapung? Seru tuh!”. It’s also an homage to my grandma.

What’s the role of your family in Galapung? 

They’re very supportive. Everything that I make, they give me feedback and I listen to them. I don’t want to be so stubborn. At least, I’m happy if they can enjoy it. That’s my inspiration. If they’re happy, then maybe others will be too.

What’s the vision of Galapung?

Highlighting and incorporating local ingredients, always.

Any special cookies for Lebaran (Idl Fitr?)

Honestly, I haven’t thought about it. Everything feels so fast. Suddenly everybody is talking about hampers. Last year I made some cookies, but I was so wrecked after that. Insyaallah, I’ll make some later this month.

What were the cookies last year?

There’s one that likes the rendezvous of Amaretti and Meringue, with coconut and kenari nuts. Then I baked some butter cookies, like sable with lime and pandan flavor, also honey and brown butter.

Which cookie will make a comeback?

Maybe that coconut-kenari Amaretti because the responses were good!

What is your hope in terms of bakeries in Indonesia?

 I hope there will be more young bakers who explore local ingredients, with a vision toward traditional food. So, not so much pride in using so-called imported olive oil or truffle. Let’s explore further, for example that Gula Aren from Temanggung or Vanilla from local famers. We have so many great products, but until we can appreciate them, we are probably not going to enjoy them. They would export all those vanilla and cacao, and all we got are just scraps from imported products. It’s not just for bakery, but cooking in general. That’s it; incorporate local ingredients.

Alright. That’s it! Maybe later if we could do a collaboration, we could you some teri, instead of anchovies. Thanks for willing to try this podcast thing with me. Thank you, Sarah!